codehaus


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Spam, bacon, sausage and Spam


On 23/07/2020 20:39, Christian Heimes wrote:
> On 23/07/2020 02.12, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>> On 22Jul2020 15:00, Christian Heimes <christian at python.org> wrote:
...

>>> would it be possible to reduce the amount of EuroPython spam on
>>> @python.org mailing lists to a sensible level? This mailing list is a
>>> general discussion list for the Python programming language. It's not a
>>> conference advertisement list.

+1 (see later)


>> I, OTOH, am unperturbed.

+1


...

>> I have never attended EuroPython and probably never will (I'm on the
>> other side of the planet) but I'm still interested. Rather than
>> subscribe to every conference thing, getting them here is very
>> convenient.

+1
(and make a note to follow-up afterwards, because many PyCons post 
videos of the presentations - not as good as being-there, but less 
expensive than an RtW air-ticket!)

...
> I'm not disputing the fact that a conference can use the generic Python
> users list for announcements. It's the fact that EP is literally
> spamming the list with threads like "Opening our merchandise shop",
> "Find a new job", "Introducing our diamond sponsor", and "Presenting our
> conference booklet". That's just spam to advertise for the conference or
> a company. Some EP announcements were cross-posted to multiple mailing
> lists like psf-community at python.org, too.

Agreed:
There is a difference between announcing conference details, and selling 
'stuff' to attendees.
(I don't know: but would a non-attendee buy the t-shirt?)


> python.org has a dedicated conference mailing list for conference
> related announcements. Additional to general conferences at python.org
> EuroPython has 2 (in words *TWO*) additional mailing lists for
> announcements and discussions (europython at python.org,
> europython-announce at python.org).
...

Agreed
However, "This mailing list is a general discussion list for the Python 
programming language" and per earlier reply, advice of a conference 
holds general interest (as well) - and is an encouragement to other 
PyCons (organisers) around the world.

Were we to ban EuroPython, would we also have to take a stand against 
beginners posting basic questions (given that there is a specific Tutor 
list)?

"General" means nothing-specific (as anyone in the military can tell you)!

In truth, I did delete many of these msgs after a cursory scan of their 
content (cf reading).


> Some people have replied to me in private because they did not dare to
> speak out against a prominent member of the Python community in public.
> At least one person has followed up with Code Of Conduct working group
> because they are annoyed by the spam.

Like the decision to use vim or emacs, this topic can generate a lot of 
heat and emotion. Is there room for both? (and for 'modern IDEs')

The "dare not speak out" is sad - both for the individuals and/or the 
organisation. Wither "inclusion" and "tolerance"?
-- 
Regards =dn